Issues regarding player AncientGreekRenowned

As was discussed at length in the community, there is a issue with player AncientGreekRenowned

For months now, interaction have degraded into what now only amounts to harassment and trolling. I have seen many players mention him directly as to the reason for their reduced desire to play.

Personnaly, I worry this behavior goes beyond freedom to play as one wants and into destructive territory for the enjoyment of the game to many people.

I don’t expect my single voice to justify any action against the player but I’m putting this up in the hopes that other will add there point a view to give a complete picture of the issue

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As one of the targets of AGR’s harassment, I can attest to it weakening my enthusiasm for the game. Having to constantly defend myself against baseless bad faith attacks is exhausting and discouraging. The community, through the actions of the moderators of the UFO server, have already made clear his presence is neither productive nor desirable. Now he’s taken the same petty trolling to ingame channels. At this point, it’s up to @molp or the other ingame moderators to step up and decide where the line is.

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I have not been attacked at all by AGR, so I try to keep a neutral stance on this, but he has done a incredible job of being incredibly destructive to the well being of the community, and seems to always find a way to make any conversation he is in worse by finding something he NEEDS to attack.

I was personally finding myself less willing to participate in the general community of the game simply because of how much he managed to poison the discourse of anything he touched, not through seeding bad conversation people then latched onto, but rather constantly making every single conversation painful to be in simply by attacking everything and anyone he can for no discernible reason. There have been so so so many very good faith attempts by so many players to not antagonize him, to not respond, to not rile him up, but he finds a way.

Even just ignoring him is not really viable, as can be seen from the case point of COSM. I have had NOTHING but VERY POSITIVE interactions with COSM and every one of its members, but due to the fact I don’t interact with them much, and the fact I have seen just so much accusations and emotional arguments against them from AGR I have a unconscious bias towards them. I even KNEW BEFOREHAND that the claims where either entirely unbacked by any evidence I had seen or where easily disproved by evidence I had seen, and yet due to basic human psychology and the shear volume of vitriol produced, I still get feelings of COSM being the “bad guys”. I 100% don’t let this effect my conduct, and try to push back on it internally, but its kind of incredible how much he actually managed to brainwash me on this while I was actively trying to fight it.

I ended up blocking him in game, and combined with how he has been blocked (or possibly he chooses not to use IDK for sure) in every discord server I use, I don’t hear from him anymore, and its amazing how quickly it changed my feelings about participating in the games community. While I know this could be solved with “if you dont like him block him”, he is so universally poisonous to the games community that blocking him has become a standard tool to significantly improve game play enjoyment.

Its funny because if you asked me if he should be banned, or muted from every single in game channel, I would still say I would prefer that not to happen; it’s wierd because he hasn’t like actively threatend anyone with IRL violence in game, or done something racist, homeophoic, etc, and its generally hard to pin down exactly what rules he would be breaking. I even think he is not that “evil” of a guy, if he just managed to not turn EVERY. SINGLE. CONVERSATION. into a toxic cesspit that would not have started if he just SHUT THE F UP and didnt HAVE to start fights cosntnatly over NOTHING. IDK what the middle ground solution is given those thoughts, but at this point its become such a massive problem for the games community I think some sort of admin based moderation, not just player communtiy moderation, is necessary jsut for the sake of the rest of us wanting to be happy. If you want a simple easy argument to make it so he cant type in any chat channel for say 3 months, he has probably made dozens if not hundreds of new players quit (this is entirely speculation with no hard evidence to back it up to be fair) simply by them seeing his conduct, and not knowing he is a almost entirely isolated unique incident in a otherwise BIZZARELY amazing community.

TLDR; I have no personal beef with him, and hes probably not evil, but its still actually impressive how much he has managed to reduce the gamepaly enjoyment of me and 70-90% (speculated figure ofcourse) of the community.

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I’ve probably had the most contentious interactions with AGR, but what you’ve said around the unconscious bias you’ve developed is my biggest issue with his rhetoric. Because of how incessant it is, ignoring them is not a viable solution. You’re not the first person that’s mentioned how AGR has approached them to rant about upstanding members of this community, spewing lies about corruption or calling COSM slavers.

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I’m also feeling discouraged at what I feel is a more hostile environment in the game’s chats.

I feel like AncientGreekRenowned’s regular messages telling everyone that COSM/Schaitr are corrupted, along with things ranging from small insults to calling people slaves and slurs even after being asked to stop, has contributed to the level of respect in chats going down. I regularly come back to the game to find them arguing with someone, sometimes with the others throwing back insults of their own. I’ve been playing for some time so I have other reasons to stay, but had this been my first contact with the game’s community, I don’t think I would have stuck around.

There are regular accusations of corruption against people who disagree with them, both in public and apparently in DMs as well. AGR has said in-game that they characterize the UFO community’s thread documenting their behaviour and requesting admin involvement as harassment, and the admin’s refusal to delete it as corruption. The same conversations are happening over and over, and the best tool I’ve had so far is blocking the people involved… but the conversations are still there, people are still engaging at that level of (non-)respect and crowding out the more friendly chat and banter, and it’s turning me off from the social aspect of the game… which is a big part of why I stuck around in the first place.

I guess what I’m mostly sad about is that I’m not sure where we can go from here. To me it’s not about AGR in particular, I don’t mind them outside what I feel they’ve helped normalize: a less respectful community. There is a rule in the guidelines:

We are lucky enough to have a very open, friendly, and helpful community. All we ask of you is not to disturb the peace with personal attacks or other toxic behavior. We trust you to know what that encompasses.

I believe there are a lot of conversations going on recently that are on the wrong side of that. I feel that if discourse keeps shifting towards insults, slurs and such, as I feel it has in the last months, it’ll end up pushing the more friendly and helpful players away and it’ll be more and more difficult to course-correct in the future.

I know moderating is a thankless job, and I won’t assume that if this continues it’s because the devs think this kind of behaviour is okay - I wouldn’t really know how to address this, to be honest. In that case, however, I think I’ll conclude that this isn’t a community for me anymore and go spend my time somewhere that makes me feel better. :blue_heart:

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I muted AncientGreekRenowned in all global in-game channels for now.

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If you want a simple easy argument to make it so he cant type in any chat channel for say 3 months, he has probably made dozens if not hundreds of new players quit (this is entirely speculation with no hard evidence to back it up to be fair) simply by them seeing his conduct, and not knowing he is a almost entirely isolated unique incident in a otherwise BIZZARELY amazing community.

To @knottly’s point I’ll say this:

I am a very big PrUn fan, and have recommended it to many people, possibly upwards of 100 at this point. Of course, many of them have not played it, and not all the ones that played it liked it, but I know around 25-30 ended up sticking around. Of them, at least 12 people that I can recall have come back to me after a while saying they dropped the game because of the toxicity around certain players and groups. After talking with them about what they meant (because I was genuinely flabbergasted anyone would find the PrUn community uninviting, let alone toxic) they have ALL mentioned or otherwise alluded to AGR being part of the problem.

This is a real issue and needs to be addressed properly. As @Roujo pointed out, the Rules explicitly tell players to “Be Civil” (it is literally the first thing they say!). I would argue AGR’s behaviour is VERY far from being considered “civil” and I appreciate the action @molp has already taken on this, even if I think stronger consequences are in order.

P.S.: If you check my company, it is just 259 days old as of writing. However, my account is almost 2.5y old at this point. Even during my hiatus in the middle, I kept recommending PrUn to people as it is a game I genuinely really enjoy.

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I’m going to once again throw my two cents in here, as AGR’s prime target (Even if he’s doing a ‘better’ job of hiding that fact now.)

Literally everyone I speak two is in two camps, and I have found no one left neutral after they have observed AGR-influenced conversation:

  • People who are fed up with AGR and have confessed to me that they are less willing to interact in spaces so long as AGR is able to continue being toxic and vile (The majority)
  • People who join AGR and start being just as toxic and vile (The minority)

We’ve all tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and the option to disengage, basically hundreds of times at this point, and all it has earned him is more and more timeouts and bans, as he doubles down on his insults and slander, refuses to justify anything he says, just calling anyone who doesn’t immediately support him an enemy and slandering them endlessly.

He’ll claim things like “False Narratives” and then refuse to actually prove why they’re false, and when someone brings conversational receipts, he gets irate and calls people names for publicly posting something that makes him look bad. I’ve tried for literal months to ignore him and it has only encouraged him.

Just yesterday I had to purge a base64 encoded message from one of the COSM channels that got relayed from ADI after being sent by one of AGR’s corp members, which was frankly full of vile language (disgusting sexual euphemisms being the biggest one) towards COSM, Schaitr and anyone not explicitly friendly or neutral to all of AGR’s methods.

I have personally witnessed how his relentless stream of obscenities has degraded COSM’s reputation over the past few months. We’re now in a position where we have to walk on eggshells every time we want to do something that might have an impact on anyone not already in the corp, because despite everything, the sheer frequency of his false claims has buried itself into people’s consciousnesses.
Furthermore, he goes out of his way to target new players in the IC region, particularly those who are interested in COSM, sending them DMs and repeating his talking points away from places where we can defend ourselves.
We have built something we love, brick by brick, in this game, and I see how much everyone in the Combine enjoys their time here. I’ve seen notably less of that since AGR started his mission, and I’ve seen a lot of people retreat away from spaces where AGR or conversation about him is involved, which is most spaces, both ingame and out of game.

To see the name and reputation of something we have all worked so hard to build dragged down through the mud because of one person’s vendetta is unbelievably disheartening, and I’m getting to the point where I’m not going to keep playing this game if there aren’t concrete consequences that protect the people who, I feel, actually try to go above and beyond to make the game a better experience.

Some people have gotten antsy about whatever precedent a global mute is setting, but from what I understand this isn’t his first strike, and if he doesn’t listen to a developer instructing him to tone it down, I don’t know what else can be done here. I don’t want to advocate for a ban, but there does come a point where the looming threat of his return will be enough to make players leave the game.

I, for one, am seriously reconsidering my yearly pro purchase because this man has drained so much fun out of the game.

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I will only say that we will have to believe a ton of shadily aligned interests towards my public and game execution, and that is harming not only me, but I also the corporation of players that I represent in the game: MUSK (over 20+ players). The measure taken is a bit too far from what I’ve experienced that the issue is: these kind of players attacking me for free in the game chats and me appearing to defend my honor and MUSK’s. The only one punished player is me, but I could highlight Rinoic and Shrewdsun on a more toxic behavior, ever suggesting that another innocent player called “radstarfox” is an alternative account of me. Also, the COSM corporation and Shaitr has done very aggressive declarations and pushed forwards false narratives to injuriate us, those who doesn’t align with the establishment.

I demand actions for these non-sense persecution in the game, or the game could be going down very quickly. At the very least, we think we all agree we need more active moderation of UFO and in-game chats. Banning just the weak link is not and will never be the solution, but APPLYING THE SAME RULES TO EVERYONE IN A IMPARTIAL WAY. Write it down when another “unexpected problem” appears around me/MUSK, or maybe someone else.

PD: All said over the community leaving “because of me” is fake. And it is obvious.

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I’d like to point out that AGR giving PrUn a negative Steam review because of how the community has organized itself is another example and part of the pattern of the sort of impact their negativity has had on the game as a whole.

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You are constantly instigating then playing the victim. You are not the victim and everyone is tired of your trolling.

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There is also the tiny detail that AGR runs on about every planet with no intent of governing:

(The main reason why If you want to run for government on a planet, you have to have a base there exists)

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I agree that the rules have to apply to everyone, not just you in particular. People insulting you back are also contributing to the issue.

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I’m of the same mind as lot of other folks who’ve posted, and they’ve put things a lot more eloquently than I have.

That said, this notion of “people insulting [AGR] back” is underselling the degree to which he likes to complain about toxicity. Just prior to this thread being created, he had a pretty civil chat with Shrewd over his appraisal of Shrewd’s finances, during which Shrewd stuck to impersonal assessments of the work, and afterwards his judgment of Shrewd’s manners was “borderline”. Just prior to the UFO ban, his complaints about the “toxicity” being directed toward him during the preceding conversation were generally agreed to be overwrought; you can find the logs yourself in that server and decide whether anyone in that chat has indulged in personal insults as fervently as AGR.

All this is to say that while I’m sure people are getting jabs in at AGR here and there, it’s important to remember that only outright deference is sufficiently polite for this guy, and even the mildest pushback or correction is going to be answered with evasions, insults, and accusations. When he says folks are being rude or toxic to him, that includes all the times when he’s been pressed for evidence, clarification, or explanation – he’s been extended the opportunity to defend himself coherently many times – and it’s incredibly misleading to accept his framing of those extremely common responses as insults.

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Here’s also my original UFO report, showcasing AGR’s repeated rude behaviour as well as usage of homophobic and ableist slurs. Of course discord is a third party service and not under the moderation authority of simulogics, I link this here to provide broader background and context to the character descriptions already present here.

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maybe we should comment on your Hitler joke targetting me, and how much you like talking about him …

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Adding some more slurs he used in Boucher chat

07/06

03:32 PM

[RCON] Rinoic

Avoid MUSK if you want a peaceful and rational universe

07/06

03:56 PM

[MUSK] AncientGreekRenowned

retard

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Shrewdsun is this a joke dude? Or what are my eyes seeeing ? You are now a FOXV member ?

Worst hypocrite ever. Way worst than Trump. I just want bad things for you from now on…

I think my earlier comment in the other thread applies here perfectly.

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Apparently I’m also named in a motion. Haven’t had good access to check it out yet.