Remove Avalon as a starter planet

Of all the starter planets, Avalon is the one that doesn’t have any useful resources for a new player. It is a very good planet for players who want extra base space in the Hortus system after maxing out Promitor, but is a terrible starting planet. Many players who start on Avalon end up either quitting or restarting. So it would be best for new player retention if it wasn’t one of the default options. Especially not inside a CX system, which are the most popular starting places.


As someone with a base on Avalon, agreed completely. Seeing a new player pop up in the planet chat is always :grimacing:

I would actually like to see them go the other way with this, and make Avalon a viable starter planet. The Hortus region already has very few viable starter planets. Some possible options of resources that could be added:

  • Large amounts of TS to enable early game FF production
  • Alternatively, small amounts of HE3 (mutually exclusive with adding TS)
  • Limestone - the HRT region is completely devoid of this critical resource that is readily available in all 3 other regions. This would help to alleviate the problem of HRT being 100% dependent on other regions for critical resources (BSE, BBH, MCG, NS and FLX).
  • Halite Crystals - Promitor’s supply of HAL is very minimal, and this would enable chemistry as a viable industry in HRT

Personally my vote would be to add a good TS deposit to future proof FF production for the next reset, and LST to make construction (a cornerstone industry) at least viable in HRT, if not effective. All of the other regions can easily farm, just not as well HRT, so I think it makes sense that HRT should be able to build it’s own prefabs while importing AL from out of system, or investing heavily in the development of a T3 world like Hortus-C for iron smelting.

As much as I personally want access to LST in Hortus, I think it is a good thing that Hortus has to import something. I do think that buffing Avalon in some way is an acceptable alternative, my only concern is whether we want to be changing existing planets resources or not. (Whatever is done, certainly don’t get rid of the 2 existing resources there.)

Unfortunately LST can not be economically imported to HRT. Montem is the only viable source unless you are willing to develop planets that require INS or worse - bearing in mind that HRT also lacks AL and FE. Local LST for Hortus would be a game changer, but sourcing AL or FE to actually do construction would still give other regions a competitive advantage.

One of the worst things about Avalon is the distance from the CX. Everyone advises newbies to conserve fuel, but then they’re looking at 3 day flight times, which is tough to bear when you’re starting out. Since there is no H2O, they have to plan consumable runs with extreme precision.

Adding LST would buff Hortus too much. Adding H2O and fertility would help, but then it kind of spoils Avalon’s flavour. Moving the planet closer to the sun might be okay. Otherwise I’d vote just to remove it from the list of starter planets.

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Umbra has the same problem, especially when it is at the opposite side of the system from the CX (which it is for weeks at a time due to the extremely slow orbits in BEN). I understand that the devs want there to be some differences and flavors between the solar systems but when you compare a very compact system like MOR to other systems the difference is ridiculous.

At least Umbra has flat out the best T1 H source in the game. The manufacturing start was designed for that planet. To the point that it’s actually just bad almost everywhere else compared to construction or even carbon farming.

if LST was added to Avalon, it would need to be bumped to tier 2 (like Nike in ANT region) or even better, tier 3. Even then, that is a dangerous option. We want more cross-region trade, not less. I get LST is inefficient, but something has to be hard for each region.

I agree that making it better is a better option than removal, but as stands fully agree no new player deserves to start there and go through a frustrating first experience.

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This is like saying we should remove Harmonia from ANT, Verdant from MOR, and Proxion from BEN because we want them to all be reliant on Promitor for rations. Oh and just plain remove fertility from every other starter planet too so even if people want to farm Katoa inefficiently, they aren’t allowed to.

BFABs are an absolutely critical resource the same way that basic consumables are. You literally can’t build a base without BSE and BBH and the limestone that is required, to say nothing of MCG, unless you straight up buy your construction materials from the MM.

If we added a huge LST deposit on Avalon tomorrow HRT would still suck at construction in the same way that MOR sucks at farming - and chances are it would actually increase the volume of shipping and inter-region trade into HRT since importing ALO and AL would make trade between HRT and ANT more viable, and it takes up more cargo space than just hauling in a large load of prefabs every now and then.

I think that adding a 10-15% concentration deposit of LST on Avalon would work best. This would at least give Avalon a purpose and help reduce the pain that comes in HRT with complete lack of locally sourced LST, but still give MOR and ANT a large competitive advantage for BSE, BBH and MCG production.

Well now this is interesting at least!

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All this banter and planet-specific stuff is ok, but I think it’s better to help the devs by brainstorming on a broader issue: what are the parameters for new starter planets? This could also lead to a system that automatically updates the starter planet list to include planets that become developed enough for new players as players expand operations in the universe.

Here’s one suggestion: establish guidelines for each starter package for starting planets including conditions, required resources, fertility, POPI, and tiered population. This also provides a mechanism for recommending what package to start with on a particular planet. For example, a T0 planet with adequate fertility and water may be good for a carbon farmer. A T0 planet with TS or GAL and adequate SET would be recommended for refining; it’s possible that no planets would be recommended for refining at the start of a universe.